Lucinda George thank you so much. It helps to read that I am at least not alone and that the steps I have taken to be supportive are what you would do as well!

Lucinda George I have also experienced this as well. I often remind my students that part of the educational journey is about being stretched and motivated to think and perform at a far higher level. It is important for students to complete the class with new skills and abilities to integrate professionally. Most claim to have never been penalized for not using APA format and style. I redirect them to the instructions and grading rubric. This typically resolves the issue with many, but there is always one student dedicated to doing things his/her way. 

Ti'Onya

April,

I encounter some of the same. I follow the GCU handbook for substantive posts, and some students log in one day and post all 3 and expect full credit. I can only count 1 of those towards participation because participation is supposed to spread throughout the week. I do receive some pushback on the APA, but if you are writing verbatim from a website or article, it needs to be cited, or it is plagiarism that goes for discussion posts and assignments. I can't catch all plagiarism, especially on the DP, because I would be working 24/7 to check for that, but I am familiar with the content because I've been teaching the same graduate courses for about 5 years. Students also tell me that other professors give them credit for their participation posts even if they log in and post 3 on the same day. I tend not to believe that because there's no way to prove that; however, I send them the link to the GCU student handbook.

I also have in the past have received documents that are in a varied font, not double spaced, no name, no date, no heading of any kind, so I also began posting examples of graduate writing format. It's difficult to read over 50 papers in small font with no spacing between the lines. 

I also outline the expectations on the announcement page in the 1st week that states anything from articles or websites need to be supported/APA.

This has helped tremendously. 

Sadly, I still get those students who may not read their feedback, the announcements, or reminders in the open forum, because their work does not improve over time. 

Good Luck, and I hope this helps ease your frustration.

Mirta

Mirta Ramirez-Espinola I cannot thank you enough for this validation. As I am honestly sitting here with egg on my face a little. I did what I am complaining about and didn't follow directions. I noticed after my plea that adjunct have a different forum! I am going to blame my desperation for camaraderie and sincerely thank you all for putting me at ease.

April Jackson Of course. -Mirta

April,

I have often had an "outlier" student who is complacent about everything - no matter what the grading, commenting, etc.  One even went on my private social media and made accusations that I was too "religiously conservative" and it inappropriately influenced my teaching and grading!

She even cited some of my Facebook posts as too "biblically conservative."  

It hurt but every other student in class gave me perfect scores and great comments.  We can listen to these but take into account for what they are - "outliers."

Just my thoughts....

Joe Aguillard

Lucinda,

Students (some) say that to try to get away from the "high expectations" we set. I always take off some points for APA if it is not correct. I offer videos, examples, and links to APA tips and tools, and more often than not, those are not viewed. Some of my students say the same, which is why I doubt their sincerity because most faculty on this forum and others I've spoken to are aligned with the grading policies. Perhaps some of the students are new to the graduate program coming from an undergraduate program where maybe they used MLA, and now they are confused. Nonetheless, I utilize the rubric to guide me.

Mirta

I'm so glad that I'm not the only one. I've been with GCU now 5 1/2 years and have had this experience more with each year. I have a power point of Class Expectations I post in the annoubncements of week 1. In this includes that I require APA for all assignments that require to be turned in as a document...no exceptions. I do mark down for not including this. I also leave A LOT of comments, and mark down for writing errors. I teach at the graduate and post graduate level - I'm often amazed at the poor writing skills most of my students have.

Rebecca Reynolds I am mostly perplexed by giving feedback that some students do not utilize to improve or progress. Mirta

Oh my, I don't know if I want to laugh or cry! I have mentioned to my classes that I feel that maybe my announcements are overlooked (when without question they are). I title that announcement "Please help me, help you"!

April Jackson 

I think some students don't read them. I started to post my announcements on the forum "Ask Your Instructor" to catch more students' attention hopefully. It has helped a little bit, but I am definitely going to include the CAT Acknowledgement discussion starting next week. 

Mirta Ramirez-Espinola I am going to apply both of these methods! Thank you!

April Jackson I recently found some videos from GCU that help students understand Lopes Write and the 20% SIM Score. Here they are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5TC-hjldHw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvSxxmlaJao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFbm8vImVDM

Frank Rotondo This is such a great idea. Thank you!

Frank,

I never thought of that (a CAT policy acknowledgment), but that is an excellent idea, and I will be doing this in the future. I am sometimes surprised by the questions about substantive posts and how many extensions students may want. I wonder how many extensions are enough to be flexible. I try for 2 if there are emergency issues, but lately, it feels like some students have wanted to take advantage of these extensions to extend my generosity. Any thoughts?

Mirta

Rebecca,

So do you ever give an extension? 

Does anyone else give extensions, and if so, for how many days?

Mirta

I give extensions on a case-by-case basis. I will be very flexible when students have emergency situations and I do not deduct late points. If students ask for an extension I ask for the reason and make a decision based upon their reason. If students do not ask for an extension or their rationale is not an acceptable excuse (one student's excuse was that she sang at a wedding the previous week), then I deduct 10% per day for each day the work is late. After nine days the assignment is scored with zero points and returned to the student. 

Thanks for sharing all of your thoughts. I find students have no idea what a scholarly source is - so I share a lot of info ahead of time. I also prefer a cover page for everything - as many students completely leave out identification! I also remind them that APA may not always be required, but it is expected at this level. 

I want to thank you all for sharing here. I was beginning to wonder if it was just me! I am still trying to make sure students are getting the information I am posting about my expectations. I worry because of the quality of the writing and I teach mostly 400 level courses. I am getting papers in which the student cannot format a simple paragraph or sentence. I am flexible with extensions on a case by case basis especially if it is a student who is showing effort. I have students that won't communicate with me, fall behind by not participating in discussions or turning assignments in and then expect me to give them extensions after the last week. I am working on setting stronger boundaries for myself so that I can be less frustrated. 

I teach MGT410 - Servant Leadership.  I try to practice it as I teach, but when I can see students are not reading my weekly announcements, it becomes difficult. My announcements speak to how to get an A (an old Blanchard tactic). I spend more time teaching writing than I do teaching Servant Leadership because students cannot follow APA formatting, and it is getting worse. During the first week, I return papers written in the GCU APA Format and give them 5-days to turn the corrected paper in. I include an attachment of the APA Format that they can write over...and most still do not get it. During my MBA at GCU my counselor suggested the Perla program, and I never lost another point for formatting. It was the best $35 dollars I have ever spent. I don't believe we can recommend it now but am looking for confirmation. What are you doing that might help? Thanks!

Kelly Jensen

MBA, US Army Retired

Teaching at GCU since OCT 2010

Kelly Jensen, I agree. In a graduate course, APA should be followed. I recently took a graduate English course where they use MLA, and I am so accustomed to APA (in my field) that I had a couple of mistakes I overlooked when I began the course, and I have deducted points for it because it is a GRADUATE course. I did not complain. It was not as meticulous as I should have been. And like you, after that, it never happened again. What kills me is that I provide links and examples week after week, and some students never correct or improve. That leads me to believe they do not care. It makes me even sadder because I am in the education field, which makes me think about their future as educators. 

 You are right, I pay for Grammarly, and I have OWL PURDUE on standby for any new citation format I use depending on research or other courses. It helps. No one person is perfect, but with redirection and support, students should improve. Mirta

Mirta Ramirez-Espinola Oh you and Kelly make me feel NORMAL. I thought it was me! I literally provide the link to the resources, no one follows and then question why they did not get a 5 for citations! Even if the feedback I outline where the citation was incorrect and provide examples. They do not care and I honestly think they went into this virtual setting thinking it would be an easy degree! This is why there are jobs that do not take online degrees seriously. This makes me angry because when I completed my online programs I worked hard and was a sponge to all the feedback my instructors provided.

 I am just as sad as you Mirta because these are adults going into the classrooms to teach children inclusive of students with disabilities.

Here I am in 2023 after the worst 6 weeks I have had since starting almost four years ago. I had students who were "rude" before, but this one took the cake to where I was ready to resign. I have never experienced this level of disrespect, yes I submitted a behavior alert but the students' demeanor did not change. I am familiar with "This is the first class I have ever had this happen" or "I always get A's you are the first I have been a B." Reading through this 2021 post I see it is a tactic used. I am a product of both traditional and online schooling and I have never spoken to any of my instructors (no matter the grade I received) the way some of the students have. What I do is implement the feedback and ask questions about how to improve! have kept my professionalism, reiterated the rubrics, and the handbook that shows they align with all my expectations. Mind you these are clearly outlined the first day of the course. This last course was the first that made me want to step away from this, it's a miracle I kept my professionalism. This particular student started with this behavior on day 1 through the end of the course. I found myself closing my eyes and doing deep breathing before opening messages.

Has anyone else had this level of experience?

JodiAnn Pantry funny that you mentioned this happening because I had something similar happen to me this month when a student stated I was targeting her by giving her reassignments and grading her work as a 0. 

I feel your pain. Because this is online, it is easier for some people to be rude and not think before they type. I will report any issues if these types of occurrences increase. 

I usually offer a chance or two to correct assignments, but when I outline the requirements, give student feedback with examples, show the student their SIM report, and work as to why I am reassigning it, I am unsure how that targets a student. I thought offering instructional feedback and a chance to redo work, which is not required by faculty, was a supportive measure on my behalf. I could score them based on their first submission without any chance to redo it. 

The student was not rude but accusatory. She gave me a story about a death in the family and that she could not focus (turning in late assignments), but with that in mind, that is not caused to accuse a professor when the student product is incomplete or done with haste. Lately, it seems like all my students have had a death in the family. I do not want to dismiss that severity, so I accept that. However, I never know which stories are true. 

The student finally calmed down after I sent her the student handbook excerpts. Students late to turn in work offer many excuses, usually saying that their other professors do things differently or did not know they could have an above SIM score of over 20%, etc. The great thing about GCU is there are supplementary videos of requirements, policies, etc. I post them all and repost them in the chat when they message me. I try to follow the GCU policies as closely as possible so there is no room for error. -Mirta

Mirta Ramirez-Espinola thank you for responding. I find that students never look through our lens and all we also have to accomplish and that we too have personal lives. One student told me she didn't know late points were deducted and a policy existed. In the past points were never deducted as long as she turned in assignments before the last day of the course.  I just sent her the handbook.

 This student from this last course was adamant about reminding me she has a doctoral degree just like I do, wrote a dissertation, and also how she hired a doctoral chair mentor (I don't know why since students are assigned chairs) who taught her about formatting. However, she did not even know how to structure a basic essay, cite with APA 7, format a ref list, or address the rubric requirements! However, I kept my professionalism and never pointed these things out. I continued to provide detailed feedback. This course was rough enough for me to decide to take a break. I had rude comments in the past and kept going, but this was my catalyst.

The current environment provides anyone and everyone the ability to sound off any way they want because social media has provided a voice to everyone and anyone. The First Amendment  is touted freely by social media and the news organizations  leading some students to believe they can take any position with no repercussion because the constitution allows them to be kind or rude whichever they choose. They have been raised in this environment. I find more and more that students have taken the position of being highly critical of any correction made of their work and not afraid to express that concern to all levels of any university. We see that in the news and we see professors being fired because students get to the upper management levels of universities and complain that courses are to hard. The management in those schools would appear to have no backbone amd wind up being sued by the professors involved.

 I post a complete set off class policies for every course I teach. I find asking the students to acknowledge they have read and understand the policies happens because I also give them one participation credit for doing so. When a student fails to follow the policies they have signed off on I remind them that they have a greed to the policy, once done I get very little push back. I do however, when I am at fault, acknowledge that I made a mistake. Your concerns are real. I am happy that GCU does have our backs and will support us. In the college of business, where I teach, we are advised that students earn the grade they get, we need to insure we are fair in our grading process and demands and simply follow stated  University policies. That does not mean we will never be criticized or challenged by a student but we are on solid ground as long as we live within the University policies.

Wise words Frank. I post the first week and ask for an acknowledgment. I also post reminders. Sadly, for me, this did not deter student (s) from speaking however they decide. Mind you, everything I post is backed by GCU's policies. I can simply tell the students who are really serious and care about gaining knowledge in each course and those who are just passing through for a grade to get to the end. The ones who perhaps this "freedom of speech" has led them to forget why they enrolled in the first place and that respect is expected.

I try to sandwich areas for improvement between two positives.  This might help "soften" your feedback just a bit.