Jennifer,

I definitely did early on, but I received one back yesterday that the student accused me of being absent in the classroom from weeks 3-5 and I couldn't imagine as I am very involved.  So I went to that classroom and found out that during weeks 1-5, I had posted a total of 117 times -- hardly absent!  I am not going to let someone who is upset about the way I run my classroom discourage me from continuing to teach.  The reason, because for the one who wants to do nothing and "get" a degree, there are probably 14-21 more in that same class that didn't have a problem and went away with more knowledge than the started with.

So my advice is one, pray about this, and two, talk to someone in Faculty Development & Training about it -- they are very supportive!  And don't let one negative comment discourage you from teaching...the world needs good teachers who will hold students to a standard.  When I was teaching on ground a couple of years back, I was told "if all your evaluations are positive, then you are doing something wrong" (personal conversation 2014).

Jennifer, you are probably doing everything right.  Don't worry, be happy that God has called you to do this.  I will pray for peace of mind for you.  Good luck, Jennifer.

Terri

Terri O'Brien,

Thank you for sharing. I feel the same sometimes. I have included more apps, and I am super flexible regarding late work, but it seems I always have one or two that dislike the online experience. They also say I am not engaged or offer little additional resources. This statement is untrue as I am always offering other resources. I also email students back quickly with further feedback if they ask. Additionally, I have announcements where I provide help and guidance for the assignments. I was saddened today when I received my evaluation, but the others were all positive; thus, for the two that were negative, I took a deep breath and thought, well, I can't please everyone. Sometimes evaluations say more about the evaluator. I always have one or two students who are not engaged until the very end, and I figured it was probably one of those students who posted a negative review. Dr. E 

Mirta Ramirez-Espinola Dr. E,

I can so relate. It is a rare EOCS that doesn't have at least one negative comment, no matter how small the class. I sometimes don't read them, even though I should. I guess I know in my heart I have done my best. I follow GCU policy as close as I know how, ask questions if something new comes up, and am always respectful and kind in the classroom. 

There are some people you just can not make happy. Why does that bother us so much? 

I have told myself to pray before I open my online classroom window and I need to take my own advice. 

God Bless,

Dr. S.

Deb Schwietert, I think it bothers us because we know we are doing our job. I know some of my students have health conditions and maybe mental issues, but sometimes some take advantage of our generosity. Those students rarely participate and wait until the last minute to turn in any or all assignments. But I take a moment to meditate, and I follow GCU policy. Thus, as per the policy, late points will be deducted. Dr. E

Mirta Ramirez-Espinola 

Dr. E.-

I sometimes forget to consider the health/mental issues. Thank you for the reminder. 

I just got my October results and they were stellar for one class and the other horrible. They docked me because they didn't follow policy and used another student as a mentor. It is really unfair. I don't want to complain. I really love my students and want to help them. They need to hold to a higher standard in some cases. 

All we can do is maintain our stance, pray, and do what is right. 

Thank you for your response. It is good to connect and see the classroom from similar eyes.

Deb

Deb Schwietert, It is true. I have seen some varied results in one class. I can pinpoint great feedback from those students that participated and were on point. The ones that missed a lot of class and rarely e-mailed me or wanted to have long, drawn-out discussions usually scored me lower. 

I did have one student upset with me, but my protocol is for students to send me a heads-up in an e-mail about what we will discuss or what questions they have so that I can come to the conference or zoom call prepared. 

One student refused, so I e-mailed her templates, resources, and guidance because she could never e-mail me what she needed. I shot in the dark and e-mailed as much support as possible. 

She would not e-mail me specifics, but she mentioned she took the course three times. So she knew the regulations and understood the course requirements. I think this may have been a particular case where I may not have been able to help. 

I prefer this first step because I can have documentation of a question, answer it, then discuss it, so there is no way a student can misrepresent my words or statements. I also provide students with the student handbook, tutoring resources, and disability resources in case they need them. 

I am willing to have a telephone conference or a zoom call, but I'd like to know what resources I need to locate or collect to support them beforehand. I want to be prepared for meetings. -Dr. E

Mirta Ramirez-Espinola 

This is great. You are helping as best you can and covering your tracks with documentation in the meantime. That is really all we can do. 

I would much rather have a phone call than to have a student point and click. However, I don't think they always want help. When we offer support with an open heart and they turn and point, I throw up my hands. Like shaking the dust off, you know?

God Bless!

Deb

Hello Jennifer and Terri:

I will not let students' who are unwilling to perform the assignments correctly, continually submit assignments late, or students' who question everything you do change the way I teach and facilitate my classes. Yes, I do what Terri stated, I pray about the situation all the time. Please remember colleagues, we are working with students' who think they are entitled to receiving "A" grades for performing at "C or below" level work. I continually receive messages from students' who state, "Anything less than an "A" is not a good grade." I let me students' know, that is not correct, a "B" grade is good work. My concern, when faculty give grades to students' they do not actually earn, this causes grade inflation, which is wrong for the student thinking they did excellent on an assignment, when they actually did not.

I pray for all faculty in this day and age.

Joseph

Joseph Kennedy,

I agree. Some students state that I grade too harshly on citations, but if it isn't cited and includes references only, unfortunately, it is incorrect. APA needs to be followed accurately. Some students even tell me instructors do not take off any points for APA infractions, and I know that to be untrue. I take very few deductions, and I offer positive feedback for attempting. However, many of our assignments require correct APA. I have links to APA tools and tips and offer feedback and examples, and sometimes I feel like some students do not read my feedback because some will not implement any changes the following week. I want to be flexible, but students also need to turn in quality work. Dr. E

Hi, Jennifer!

I do understand your frustration and have dealt with it for over 25 years of teaching now. I do still read through my evals and understand that students everywhere have their own expectations of grades, which don't agree with each others as well as ours in many cases. Example, this term I have received a post from one student saying she could not understand how she got a B on an assignment as, thus far, she has never gotten anything less than 10 points off in an entire class. When students are given higher grades, they expect this will be true in every class. I explained why she received the grade she did. But, this goes to the question of grade inflation already brought up.

A second one is a comment on the EOCS I received yesterday - that I focus too much on grammar and not content. Not knowing who this was from, I can only surmise, that the student had a lot of grammatical/spelling errors, which I do correct for their benefit, but maybe overall did fine on the assignments. Although I do not cover an English class, I still feel it is my duty to help improve student's grammar. 

But, overall, I have learned to grow a "thick skin" to the negative comments unless they all (or close to all) are negative. If it is one or two with more that have positive comments, I look to both the positive and negative. I could not make the grammatical corrections, to avoid this negative comment in the future, but is that the correct way to handle this situation? Maybe I should mention in my announcements that I do make these corrections to help students. Otherwise, I always remember the old saying about not being able to please everyone all the time. 

So, my suggestion is not to fret the negatives, as sometimes those can help us grow also. If most of your comments are positive, you are doing things right! That is what is important.

Kathleen Sedille,

It is a graduate course, and I expect grammar to be part of the final grade as most of our rubrics include mechanics grading criteria. I review the work based on the criteria and rate accordingly. 

Dr. E

Hello Jennifer:

Based on what you stated, I am in full agreement with you! APA references and effective APA writing format, assignments submitted on time with substantive paraphrased information (including the weekly online discussions), students' are responsible to read and understand the course content in all of my classes. This is fully explained to all of my students the first week of class. This is very nice to hear from fellow faculty members! 

Yes, if an assignment is late I will deduct 10% of the grade each day it is late. If the student provides me with an acceptable excuse, I will forgo the deductions on the assignment. As a faculty member, I always believe in tough love. As a business professor, I seek to apply my classroom environment in a business environment: 1) What will my students' encounter in their careers? 2) What will they be expected to perform and produce. 3) What expectations will they have based on their job performance? 4) How should they act in a business environment? 

As a Christian, our goal is to Glorify our Father in Heaven in everything we do.

Thank you for your post Jennifer!

Joseph

Joseph Kennedy,

Thank you for sharing. 

I feel a lot better after reading these correspondences. 

Mirta 

Hello Jennifer,

These same issues also abound at the doctoral level as well. The program and expectations are spelled out for the learners, scoring templates are available to show them exactly what information they are required to provide in each and every section of a prospectus or proposal, and specific deadlines are also attached. Learners seem surprised that they can't submit papers after the class has ended or a month after they were due. I have encountered a few who wondered if they could write a paper on something for extra credit...really? At the doctoral level? When we consistently point out the expectations and deadlines via emails, calls, announcements, and in replies to their discussion postings, the learners are ultimately responsible for the choices they make. This may impact the EOCS but the record of the class is there for the administration to review. 

Despite our frustrations, in session after session we encourage, motivate , and praise their growth and development into learned members of society. We give all that we have. That is our satisfaction...That is the path we have chosen for ourselves to do His work.

I too review my EOCS every time they come in, and can clearly see a pattern of students that fail the course and give negative comments. In the same report, I get comments of how it was two weeks to get grades (which is never true) and then the next person discussed how prompt I was. There are always conflicting views. I incidentally also see that every student thinks they put 100% effort into working hard in the course. It is all perception on everyone's part. 

For extensions etc., I too follow the GCU policies. I will give one extension per student if there are extenuating circumstances. I do struggle with the amount of drama a student has in their life and how it all happens during my 5-week course. Since I teach 5 different courses in the same program, I have the luxury of seeing the same students several times. This helps me see patterns of lateness and excuses if they exist. I wish we could see this for all their courses to help with decision making, as there are students who 'always get A's' etc. The amount of hardworking students far outweighs them in my opinion, but the first group takes up most of my time. I am very forgiving, but I often wonder if there are students who are able to excuse their way through a whole degree by complaining about their grades a lot to inflate them. So, I hold true to how I teach all of my classes. Consistently following policy to back me up. The other policy I uphold is that assignments are never accepted after a course ends. Even if it is 5 minutes after midnight. Still I hear how lenient all their other instructors are, and it makes me wonder if I am the only one following policy since it is at our discretion. I make sure to post expectations in the first announcement for the course. This has helped a lot with proving that I told them as they are responsible for reading all messages. I appreciate the discussion to see that I am not in my boat all alone. I do feel guilty when I have to tell someone no though. 

For me the challenge of reading the EOCS comes when they seemingly accuse me of have a tough course syllabus when it is the university who prepares the syllabus.  I have repeatedly given my evaluation with suggestions for changes and nothing happens.  I take my work seriously and try my hardest even with the difficult students and so it does hurt personally when I get the criticisms.

Vernon Meyer

I am often discouraged by comments particularly of lack of participation, grading to hard and slow feedback.  When I see feedback that rates everything poorly except the student’s motivation to succeed. (what are the odds?).  I do pray and reflect on the feedback and try to keep an open mind, but often negative or low EOCS results are a result of a student who did poorly and expected to get an A with no effort. In general, the US grading system is inflated and the use of surveys as an open forum to judge teaching somewhat encourages the grade inflation; students who get As don’t leave negative feedback.  However, for the one negative there are usually several positives.

I have taken some independent courses through turn it in that have helped me better deal with the feelings of entitlement (for an A) and it has helped.  They cover ways to communicate that content is graded not effort in a way that is not offensive to the student. 

I have also had bad surveys saying I care more about APA and writing than content.  I correct and educate much on APA, but I seldom take off major points ( as I teach the first class in the program) but many students don’t notice they have not lost points, they simply don’t want the correction; for some students offering a correction is seen as negative.  However failing to correct writing and other errors would do the student and the school a disservice. Graduates are a reflection on GCU, those with average knowledge who graduate with As and cannot write are not a good reflection. As such I continue to grade conservatively and fairly despite its impact on my EOCS results. I try to focus on the positives I receive on the EOCS and in class (which are many) and let them guide me.

I would love to see more support from faculty development so that students would better understand the instructors role and academic expectations before entering a course.   Lisa

Hello Colleagues,

I am glad to know that others are feeling sad when they get negative feedback from students who did not agree with the grade they received, but would not follow the directions given. I had the worst feedback on my last EOCS in almost 8 years teaching at GCU. The last EOCS results were the worst I have every experienced. I had three students who were determined to "get me" and they wrote it in the forum where they had to know that I would see it. They were disrespectful throughout the six weeks. I talked with them on the phone individually, two settled down but the other continued to the end of the course. They did not like my policies that mirrored the policies of GCU. 

 There appear to be two reasons for this type of behavior: 1) Grade inflation and 2) inconsistencies in expectations from one professor to the other. I do not give A's for low-level performance. They accuse me of grading too hard. They always have a 4.0 before coming to me. Even though I grade for competency, but fairly, most students earn A's in my classes. 

I have had classes taken away from me that i have taught for years with no major problems. I feel that the results have contributed to some recent things that have happened to me. I am getting very small classes and not making any money although I have been teaching here for almost 8 years. There appear to be no loyalty and some of the faculty representatives take the word of students and do not ask you what happened. I find that to be very disrespectful to the professor.

I will pray and thank God for His intervention.

Barbara

Barbara,

I completed my Ed.S at GCU about a year ago. At that time, I asked if I could be considered for more/different classes. I was told that my EOCS scores were not high enough. I think that is unfair. I am going to ask again. I have done everything suggested to get higher scores on the EOCS, but I think the problem is that most of the students who are disgruntled are the ones who are completing the end of the course survey. I will not compromise my integrity to get higher scores. I feel that I am more than fair to my students and I agree that there should be more support from faculty services regarding this.

I was reading faculty focus and found this article and felt it would be perfect for this forum. Click here to read “What Can We Learn From End of Course Evaluations”; I found it helpful.  There are things we can learn, and change related to feedback, but we do still need the support of advisers and faculty development to assure disgruntled students are not ridding the school of excellent educators, or keeping them from teaching courses for which they are qualified   One way this could be done is by viewing comments and assessing validity, if the educator got low scores and the comments are geared at the course design and assignments (for which the educator has no control) the scores should not be counted and the course design people should be notified of the complaint.  I also think surveys that rate everything as horrible except there participation and effort should be disregarded.  Lisa

Thank you Lisa. I am about to read this now.

Hello Jennifer,

I think with most anonymous surveys/evaluations, you can throw out the top and bottom scores. This will give you a good feel of what most of your class thinks and go from there. I ask my students to remember to be professional and reply in a way that they would like someone to reply to their performance-constructive criticism is always welcome, the golden rule, etc.

Deb

Hi Jennifer;

Do not let the students' evaluation weigh you down. No matter what you do or how hard you try, there will always be one or more student(s) who will rate you low (get used to it). Continue to do your best, pray, and leave the rest to God. I feel you though; it hurts, I know. But do not worry too much about it. God bless. Thank you.

Hi Jennifer

I look at is this way. While I would love to reach all my students, I do not let the one that I did not reach discourage me and instead focus on the one(s) I did reach. There are all types of views and opinions in the world, and the simple fact is we cannot address them all, but we have to focus on the difference we make, not the individuals that could not connect with us.

To me it is not a content issues, a grading issue, or even an attendance issue. The central aspect is students want to learn, and some simply do not. If we give them encouragement, advise, and help, and that does not stem the tide, then there really is nothing else we can do.

I hope that helps

Rob

Rob, 

Having recently been threatened by a student after finding self-plagiarism and asking her about it, I really need to see your post this morning.  I am finding that when I hold students accountable, it results in defensive and threatening IF posts to me by the student which then becomes a reportable issue which consumes more time on my end.  However, you are correct, if there are 20 students in a class and one has an issue, the other 19 should not suffer because of the 1 and there is nothing else anyone can do as these students are adults and should be held accountable for their actions.

Thank you for the reminder.

Terri

Not a problem at all Terri. You get upset because you care (something we can not coach), but the goal is to keep a small sense of the real world as students sometimes will not connect.  

I would rather spend 5 hours helping those that really want to learn as opposed to one that is looking for an easy way out, and just wants to argue.  I had a student complain to me "I have never gotten a C".  When I sent the information back, outlining where she missed the mark etc. magically, suddenly her papers became so much better. Imagine that.

Hang in there

Rob

Jennifer...

I am interested in the EOCS comments from students I used them in an attempt to improve engagement, responses, grading and classroom management.  With that in mind, after doing this for over ten years I know that certain comments can still hurt. An example is below: 

This teacher was clearly inconsistent with grading in the forum and in various assignments. The bias that existed from student to student was disheartening.

This particular summary had me searching through the Individual Forum and Questions for the instructor to locate any indication of a student that may have been annoyed or frustrated with any grade, comment or assignment. I could not find anything that might have caused a reaction of this type.

I have come to realize that even though I could not locate an issue with this particular course, some of the comments from students originate from their own shortcomings in all or part of the course, or extension or special considerations were not granted, many times denied solely in fairness to the remainder of the course participates.

Marti~

I take all student feed back with a grain of salt (and sometimes aspirin). Becoming a better teacher is something I have to visit often (seeing how I am teaching and all). So, I look for ways to improve, do my best to engage, and interpret student feed back decisively. 

Sometimes we need to ask ourselves, "Does the student's comment have merit?"

Mark, I think part of the challenge is every comment has merit. What I mean is, negative comments are one thing, harsh attacking comments are another. If we do get those, somewhere we missed the signs that the relationship with the student was going off the tracks. 

I realize some students are just that way, but as educators we need to try and see that ahead of time if at all possible

Thanks
Rob

Jennifer and Colleagues:

I have been with GCU for many years and have received numerous EOCS responses. Within all of these survey results, I have come to realize a few things:

1. Students who do not do well in class are often looking for someone to blame. Thus, when they leave feedback, they lash out at everyone (not just the instructor) to cover/justify their lack of effort and/or commitment. For example, I have had students who have said that I was not online often enough. I am online every single day for hours each day! Thus, I take what they say with a grain of salt. Often, these are the students who would post a question about an assignment minutes before it was due and then express anger as to why you did not reply immediately. These are also the students who do not find the many resources a good instructor provides for success. I often wish the EOCS response could be correlated to a students' grades.

2. Many times, the negative reactions in the EOCS come from the students' anxiety of a poorly written class (some classes are new and are in need of minor/major rewording in some areas). I still have many students who think I write the course material. 

3. Even poor performance marks and/or comments can actually be beneficial. I will have a student leave comments such as "Though I confess I did not work as hard as I should have for this class, I still think the instructor could have..."  I love these responses because though the ownness of failure is on the students, he/she is trying to let me know how I could have helped them in some way. 

4. For all of the poor responses, I have many more results that are outstanding (Dr. Heard is the best...Dr. Heard was professional and insightful...). These comments help keep me motivated!

5. In everything, good or bad, I find things I can use to keep me growing as an educator. 

"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." Ken Blanchard

All in all, the EOCS Results are simply a tool we can use. 

Doc. H. 

Hello Shane:

I agree with what you said. I have been teaching a specific online class in the undergraduate business program, where the class was poorly designed (undergraduate students' had to perform 8 weeks of team assignments the entire semester) and was harder than the graduate level business course I teach as well.

Are classes at GCU evaluated prior to being implemented? 

The EOCS responses by the students' were negative, especially based on how this classed was designed. This course was developed by GCU, but the students' think I wrote the course material. 

Best regards,

Joseph

Kathleen Sedille 

You were being too generous. I also allow students to redo assignments, and I have had gripes about students having to do the work over, but it was work I could not grade (subpar). I also offer guidance in my announcements with frameworks/outlines on how to submit assignments. Some assignments include templates, but sometimes one or two students do not read the announcements, directions, or rubrics correctly.  I'm thinking of adding some reading strategies to my announcements. I may have some diverse learners in my courses, and I may not always be aware or they do not share that information. Dr. E

Hello Joseph:

I am unsure what happens prior to the original release date. However, I know that there is a review process and changes made as time goes by. 

Doc. H. 

Hello Shane:

Thank you for the information!

Joseph

Shane Heard ~ spot on, thank you! I must add that outliers exist in every form of assessment, and those outliers are of two types from my students: (a) a student has accurately perceived something I need to work on for improvement, and (b) a disgruntled student who must vent in a way that is heard. 

I am of the school where teachers are learners and vice versa. The (a) was a semester when I was torn between flying to be with a sister, diagnosed with ALS, and with symptoms that raced at an unbelievable pace, and mentoring/helping my students who were ill-prepared for college demands. I have since learned to compartmentalize better, and to be honest with students. If I am too ill to respond, I let them know via e-mail that my usual lightening speed responses will be delayed. I have found that students appreciate the honesty. 

The (b) most likely came from a student chose to fail, as in never turned in work after repeated requests by me for a conversation. 

Shane, you are correct, about approaching assessments as a teaching and learning moment. Thank you!

Cheri:

Well posted! I love your point about outliers: those that can help us grow and those that really do not count for much. 

I have had several students who chose to fail. For them, there is not too much that can be done, unless they chose to do so. 

We do the best we can with what we have!

Doc. H. 

Shane Heard 

I agree. Thank you for your kind words.

Where do we go to view the ECOS?

Kind regards,

Mark Smithers

Mark Smithers 

They come via email. 

Mark:

The ECOS results come to you (usually monthly) in the form of a PDF file attached to an email from GCU. 

Doc. H. 

Dr. E and all;

Good morning. I think you are experiencing what some/most of us are experiencing. Some students work too many hours because they need the money; and therefore do not have the time to study the materials. They may not perform as well as they intended to. Even if the instructor has done his or her best for the students, some will still give negative evaluation. But as you have rightly said, the students blame instructors for their performance rather than themselves for not spending enough time on their studies. We just have to continue to try our best for them.

Dr. B

Salimat, Thank you for weighing in on this discussion. I do think that some students probably have hectic schedules, but with organization and time management, any plan can be amendable unless there is some extreme emergency. Some of my students work hard and are not working efficiently, and I try to offer support where I can. 

Mirta Ramirez-Espinola 

I try to offer support as well, however, I do state everyone has a hectic schedule, that is just our norm. We over-schedule. I just held a Zoom with doctoral students in which I indicated that it is ok to say "no". We cannot attend every church event, every child's sporting event, every wedding, etc. Time management does become a criteria when studying. There is no way I could have finished my degrees without following a defined schedule. It is only temporary, which is what I tell my students. 

Angela 

Angela Parker 

I agree. It is okay to say NO. I don't know about you, but I am in the unique timeframe where I have children and older parents, so I chip in to take my mom to the doctor since she drives very little. I am empathetic with my students because I face those same challenges. However, I think time management is a big issue for some students. Mirta

Cherri,

Thank you for sharing that story with us. I think some students can have a crisis, and we do need to be empathetic and offer extra time. I listen to any stories students send me and try to be as flexible as possible. If the reasons are emergencies or are kin to something like you experienced, I could see that as a legitimate excuse. Mirta

When I first started years ago, those comments did bother me. Over the years and a few changes myself, I now look at the overall score, not the 1 - 2 students\comments who are able to share their opinion, if I agree or not. 

It is also interesting, usually we know who those individuals are because of lack of participation, failure to read announcements or failure to read and apply feedback. 

I also noted during the pandemic, there seemed to be more negative comments, so I started charting to see if I can establish a correlation. 

Angela

Angela Parker 

You are right. I usually have at least two students that are not graduate studies ready. They ask for many extensions, turn in subpar or incomplete work, or do not turn in work until the end of the course. It becomes annoying when I provide feedback and students make the same mistakes weekly. Then you read that you weren't helpful. As you mentioned, it is usually one or two, and the other evaluations are positive. Dr. E